Petroleum, Monsters and others

a dialogue with Wang Mai

Tian Kai: Let’s talk about the petroleum first. The petroleum is a very realistic problem and it is more and more important. Currently, the global political, economic and military situations and the ebb and flow of regional powers correlates closely to petroleum. How did you start to pay attention to petroleum? Is the petroleum only the clue for observing the reality for you? Or are you just interested in the petroleum itself?

Wang Mai: This problem didn’t emerge in my life and thought before. Because when I happened to find the abandoned moulds in 798 Factory , what I only wanted to do at that time is to create some art works reflecting the development of the scientific and industrial civilization of the 1950s to 1960s. In 2004, however, just as I was creating such works, I read in a magazine an article, which told about in detail, with many figures and images, the strategic relationship between China’s petroleum and the international situation, and the blockade for China made by the United States by creating outer and inner blocking island chains. I was shocked to realize for the first time that petroleum, as a strategic energy, is so crucial for China. The future of this world is the world determined by energy. Who he controls the energy, he controls the world. But before that time, I didn’t know that China was in such a dangerous situation. In fact, such information and clues were relating to my works of “The Future Buddha”, it reflected the worries about development. I have explained in the notes of the works that our worries about development came from the risky expedition in which were forced. I don’t know very much about petroleum; but I am sure it must be a very complex problem.

Tian Kai: In fact, before you discovered the petroleum as your material for creation, you had been keeping an eye on the reality and, especially, the presence. A lot of your works are the reflection to the realistic world. And then, you discovered that petroleum can be a very good material and can be used to create something symbolistic.

Wang Mai: Sure, actually I was shocked by the information ,and also ,I was inspired by the 911 Event.After that, I made “Paired Pagoda of Acousma”,the two big kaleidoscopes,which symbolized the twin towers of the World Trade Center. This event stimulated me very much. Since the 1990s, I have been sensitive about this kind of problems, I can be aware of the essence of the things. When facing such maters,I usually have feelings which is so strong that I often have illusions. I wonder if they are true stories.When you read 911 events,and saw the pictures on the newspapers and TV screen,the whole thing give you a kind of illusion. This is why I made a electric kaleidoscope and put inside the fake pearls and together with the pictures of suspects,and let them revolve constantly to make different compositions. The petroleum, likewise,is not accidental, it is inevitable to appears in my sociological criticism and my own view of the word. Due to this way of thinking,I begin to pay more attention to other core things of our time.

Tian Kai: You have been keeping in touch with the ralistic world. Is there anything to do with your personal experience? I know you are not a graduate of fineart college and you have been a professional artist since you wer young. It is an very interesting conversion in your experience from an art youth in a small town in Heilongjiang to the artist village in the Yuan Ming Yuan area.

Wang Mai: In the past , we always say that it is good for one to read a lot and travel a lot,while, if no complex personal experience,one can not totally understand what it means. Reading is good for you to accept the heritage of history and culture.It is important,however, personal experience,actually, helps you complish what you have read.Without complex personal experience,your understanding of classics remains at a lower level. In the times of the Yuan Ming Yuan area and post-89’ Event period,the social atmosphere was depressed and the enthusiasm was suppressed. But I could feel the enthusiasm that intellectuals wanted to take part in the social reforms.I don’t have strong antiparty to the 89 event,as I was too young to be affected by the event. So I had been as culturally enthusiastic as ever with the 1990s’.I was keen on reading and observing.While at that time,I began to find that there was an defect in China’s art circle,most of the artist,even the artist in 1960s’.trained by the Chinese academic fine art system,had not obtained the ability of observing. For an artist, the training of the ablity to observe is very important.Look at your schoolmates, most of them have obtained very good skills.No matter what you are making, print, sculpture, national painting or oil painting.There is no much difference among them in terms of skills,except some who are exceptionally skillful. In fact, the good art works which appeal to you should present the painter’s unique the explanation of the world.The modern art mainly means that your works can take part in the explanation of the important social events, it is not the problem of technique. I was greatly influenced by what I read in the 1980’s and some magzines in 1990’s,run by intellectuals.I gained my ablity of observing right in these ages,by my reading and my personal experience.

Tian Kai: So you are just like an acceptive equipment with many antennas, and you materialize what you received. For example, you made the series of “Using Wisdom to Capture the Oil Monster”, the material you used is wood and it is an “assembled” monster, not the monster in the reality. My next question is: what is the image source of such monsters?

Wang Mai: The monster is the petroleum pipeline, it is personified, I don’t know how to call it. It is made in the forms of an animal or something with life,it is not my invention. The intention to make everything in the world vigorous can be seen here and there, now and past. You can see the elbows of the petroleum pipelines here and there; the spare parts and components you have seen here basically form the shape of an animal. No matter what I use - the tee, flow-through or the elbow - I can form them into such an intention, that is, a savage-looking, personalized but funny thing.

Tian Kai: This is the personification of the petroleum. But what about the figurines mean? They have the wooden head, feathers and the crystal-glass antlers. How these things were designed?

Wang Mai: Because I was very interested to many mythic figures of ancient China.You may have seen that, especially the immortal kids in the temples and the porcelain pillow in the shape of the children in Song Dynasty. The concept of “children” is very important in the Chinese culture, for it relates closely to the happiness. We often say that Kylin and Guanyin Buddha can brought the children to the families. The children are very core phenomena in Chinese culture. Therefor,there are many figures of children in the visual art, which influenced the source of my creation. The figures of the children come from the tradition more than from the animation. I can make any object move, such as a cup or an ashtray and that is animation. Basically, I have no relation with the fashion in essence, only that my works provide the possibility of being explained. Mrs. Victoria Lu call this virtual figure as “the animation aesthetics”. Such saying has her academic framework, but it is not the problem I want to discuss. Though the people of our generation also grow up in animations, we could see a lot of animation in our childhood, so there is something imperceptibly influenced. And there are the animations made by Hayao Miyazaki, his works are very shocking. So I think such matters must not be the simple image indication, for me, they are the mapping of the magic in the realistic world, and they have diversified forms.

Tian Kai: This figures look a bit like the animation of that time, or the science popularization readings for the children, for example, the Science Pictorial for the Children which we have read in our childhood. The information and broadcasting measures at that time are far less developed than those in current times. A lot of fictions should be presented by the way of caricature, the restrictiveness of the imagination of the authors and the painting technique made the works unpretending and lovely, for example, The Trip of Xiaolingtong in the World of Future. I think that many symbols of your paintings come from there, so as for the generation of the people in China; we recognize the animation from there. The simple black and white sketch can give each young people different spaces of imagination, at this point; the animation of China is totally different from the animation in Japan. For example, Mr. Takashi Muradami had edited a book with the name of "Little Boy". It can be regarded as the collection of the Japanese animation art. When talking about the origin and background, he used Little Boy as the name of this book. Actually it is the name of the atomic bomb which was thrown in Hiroshima. He said, all the realistic mood of the Japanese people began at the explosion of that atomic bomb, it came from the injure of the atomic bomb explosion and continued to the current times. I think we could only feel the feeling of the Japanese people if we were bombed by the atomic bombs, while the Japanese are very sensitive and containing. They will always transfer the psychology of the extremely horrible victims to the violence exerting person which is on the totally opposite way. Their pure passion and sin are the same, and their loveliness and disgusting are still the same. It is very difficult for the Chinese people to understand. What is the relationship between your creation and the animation advocated by Takashi Muradami in terms of the clues?

Wang Mai: It is just opposite; it is the first time I heard that the background of the creation of Takashi Muradami is related to the atomic bomb! Such can make me have a deeply understanding to his works. But my works come from the ideal happiness from my childhood. His experiences are sad, but the experiences of our generation are happy and full of illusion. We have accepted a blanket of idealism in our childhood; go to the year 2000, fly to the space, the science and technology change the future, traveling in the future, etc. What we have seen is the figure full of hope, and they are relating to the happiness. They are the products of idealism of the certain times. The people of our generation have the factor of idealism. But the works of the Japanese artists, even the works of Nara Yoshitomo and Takashi Muradami , have the background of violence. I didn’t understand this context before, and I seldom pay attention to this kind of works. If he comes from the history of being defected of the Japanese, the figure is very profound. So what you have seen is the visual figure presented by this generation of Chinese, it is the nonsense shallow, it is the affect of the Japanese colonial culture.

Tian Kai: It is a kind of secondary culture in the world, and not the mainstream culture. It has nothing to do with the thought of the mainstream art; it is only related to the Japanese nationality. The Japanese culture hasn’t generated as a tree without the roots, it only has very beautiful leaves, you can pick one of them and place it in your book, and it is also very beautiful.

Wang Mai: So you have told me the background of Takashi Muradami, I have really understood why he becomes so powerful; there is the pain of the nationality in his works. This is very deep thing. While in terms of “the Children’s Club”, it is the introduction of the people of the last generation to us. We are the master of the future, I was totally soaked in the illusion in that time. The studying in the art group in the Children’s Club and various kinds of art activities affected my very much. What I am using in my works, such as the halo of the planet, the spaceship, Chang’e Flies to the Moon, the nebular in the universe, at that time, there are lot of such images of the socialist propaganda. Especially in my city at that time - Yichun, it was a totally new city and there was no traditional culture, it only has the industrial culture of the New China after 1949. Actually Yichun is a very upstate city. But my primary school is a key school in Heilongjiang Province. The Children’s Club in our primary school is the best in the province. The aeromodelling, topside model and various kinds of activities could give me the illusion. Till now when I thought of “Children’s Centre”, there are the illusions in my mind, just like Chang’E flies to the Moon or the astronauts in the spaceships.Yang Liwei became the first astronaut in China, this event reminded my visual memory, otherwise why should I draw the astronaut. Some people drew the astronauts before, but they lacked the context, they don’t have the relation between the Chinese history and reality.

Tian Kai: Sure, it is very important. When we were in primary school, there were always the saying of “realizing the national modernization” in the textbooks. This was very abstract, as if the modernization could be realized by the year of 2000 all at once. That seems to be an untouchable dream, but when it came to 2000, whether the modernization has been realized is left aside, Yang Liwei became the astronaut. This may be the time with new symbolic significance; the Chinese people can find the way of collective happiness no matter how the reality is serious. This is an active and optimistic philosophy.

Wang Mai: So all of our experiences are from the virtual of happiness, the year of 2000 is a kind of illusion, it makes you foresee the future, and have anticipation to the future. Our memory is different from that of the artists and authors of the 1960s; their memory was related to the Cultural Revolution. But our memory are absolutely joyous, including the songs of that times, such as The Happy Festival, nearly there were no songs for children full of sadness. At that time, we mix the science, life and ideology tighter. So in our memory, everything is glowing. You can see that my works are full of joy, even the petroleum monster. Even it is opening its mouth and being capture, it is happy. I also have the works expressing sadness, but the series of the petroleum monster are not. It is not the binary opposition. You have read the poem of Capture the Petroleum with Wisdom, the fourth stich is about the relationship between China and the international society, it shows the optimism which is in the traditional ideology in China. Actually it is a metaphor. I have said that, the earliest source of my creation is my worrying that China is in a dangerous energy environment, but I make it in a relaxed way. This is the original intention of my creation; I don’t want to show the feel of desolation at the end of the century, for that sort of the works, the public media make better than me. They can make a two-episode program and express the energy problem in a shocking way. What I want to do is only an idol in my imagination, a story with a Hollywood style. On its body we can see the symbols of a lot of petroleum companies; I imagine that they might become a united body and control the world in the future. This is a very funny story. As said earlier, the visual figures in my childhood have brought me a lot of anticipation, and they were happy. But during your growth, you are bound to undergo a lot of torture. After all, the anticipation and comfort it gives to you is something nearly the illusion. In the real life, you will meet a lot of social problems, such as Takashi Muradami, his works seems to be very joyous, but their core is very sad. My works look like to show a fierce confrontation, but the things hidden might be optimistic. It is not the simple entertaining-looking thing, but the attitude during my visual growth.

Tian Kai: A friend said when he had been to Africa and saw all the drilling platforms on the coast of the oil-producing countries are made by PetroChina and SINOPEC. China is also expanding the energy situation silently.

Wang Mai: In my work of “Heavenly Creation”, I drew the childhood of a king in the myth. But he is wearing a cap of worker, he is a god, he has the energy. It is the childhood of the original capital accumulation. Then is the glow of PetroChina, it raises the head of dragon and stands on the flaming chariot. This figure can show the relationship between China and the international society very properly. It is a growing up man who has the force of destroying, but its capital is in the childhood. I also drew a lot of faces of children in the series of “The Brilliance of Capitalism”, they are the monsters and good men, and they have the dual ability of destroying and construction. If we only understand China as a winner today, it is absolutely incorrect, but via such things, we can decide the nature of these times typically.

Tian Kai: For the understanding of the works, one is the interior understanding, let Chinese people understand, the other is the exterior understanding, let the Western countries understand. How can a Chinese artist explain this thing? For example, there is an artist who makes a conceptual work; he made the workers manufactures the tools for the ophthalmonogical operation on the spot. In the developed countries, such operation equipments might be produced by the machines. But the artist arranges the workers to use the microscope to grind such tools, when they are making the tools for the ophthalmonolgocal operation, their eyes are damaged. When Chinese people see this, they might feel sad, but when the Western people see this, they might feel, oh, it is very accurate!

Wang Mai: Some works should be expressed for the Western people and obtain their sympathy. Such works might be on a fair standing, for it doesn’t give an absolute attitude of nationalist or the attitude of the dissidents.

tian Kai: All we have discussed above is the ideology, besides this, your works look elaborate no matter the utilization of the material or the making procedure. We can see the elaborate works which are scarce in the devices of China. This is very valuable for even a piece of work with the political ambition should be established on the very elaborate making. Have you been paying attention to the skill?

Wang Mai: Yes, just as what is said in the theory of Xu Beihong, from the fine and elaborate work, one can see the grandiose situation. Recently I have been thinking over the conceptual art which was fashionable in the previous years. Some people asked me, why your works become more and more elaborate? Why do you have such transition? In the previous years, my works weren’t such elaborate; they were very abstract and express my mind in another way. The art should show the unique thought and the strength of sensibility, without the unique thought, where is your concept? Without the ability, how will you express your thought? Now we can see the bad effect of the so-called conceptual art to the art of China, large amount of the raw works without the thought are produced. They are the simple simulation. When we haven’t invented the ready-made articles, when we haven’t any spirit carrying responsibilities, the skill become very important. The development of the art affects the so-called conceptual art very much, a lot of artists talk about the concept with you, but they are very shallow in fact, they even can be a note of philosophy. I often hear some ordinary audience say after they watched some works “Is this the art? I can do it also”. Finally, the artist losses the skill by which he is living. Does he have any value?

tian Kai: Why do you choose the wood as your material for the works? On one hand, you have found some moulds in 798 factory, on the other hand, does it have anything to do with the growing environment in your childhood, the background of Xiaoling’anling mountain area and the passion for to the wooden material?

Wang Mai: My first device is made up of the stainless steel, and the latter devices are wooden. I selected the wood as the material, for there is the traditional meaning. The traditional architectures of China have the wooden structure. The wood means the benevolence among the five elements in China, the benevolence stated by Confucius, the five elements are corresponding to five meanings in terms of the moral, gold means righteousness, fire means etiquette, earth means credit, water means intelligence. The selection of the wooden material in China is a moral selection, not only the convenience for using. What we are saying today, for example, you are a talent like fine wood, and it is a kind of compliment. Just like the jade, the wood is a moral decision; it is the decision to the personality of a person. A gentlemen is suitable for wearing jade, so if you see the wooden material in”Using Wisdom to Capture the Oil Monster”, it also has the moral significance. It has become the carrier just like the god. It is in my work of “Memorial Stele Enters the Pagoda” when I used the wooden material for the first time. Ancient Chinses people chose wood to build the pagoda for a moral symbolism. To construct a pagoda is the symbol of moral and wisdom. But today, the exterior environment of the pagoda has changed a lot, the standing pagoda has an entertainment meaning now. Besides, you are very correct that I grow up in a city with forests, when I went to my grandpa’s house, I would chop the wood with axes for them. I am very familiar with the sound of chopping the wood; the sound is different in summer and in winter.

tian Kai: This experience seems very romantic; will you continue to use your romantic feeling and fantastic idealism to reflect the reality?

Wang Mai: Sure, such series will continue, and I will have several clues at the same time for creation, but this must be the most important clue.